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Finally we have a Commissioner that can see past his nose, or the latest special interest demands!

I hope Mr. Bell, and therefore the citizens of this county, meet success.

A couple of minor points.

First, the only good thing about Comm. Bell's announcement is his attempt to streamline the process by which businesses can be permitted and be built. That's it. It is something that government should always look to do, and is the ONLY thing that a local government can do to stimulate growth, since we can't print money like the federal government can.

However, the "bull factor" in the rest of the announcement is very high. There was never any "no growth" attitude nor any "no growth" direction on this, or any commission ever elected in Forsyth County. Furthermore, there was never any attempt to keep business out of Forsyth County. No moratoriums on business zonings, permitting or construction.

So his entire premise is based on false assumptions.

Growth stopped in Forsyth County for one, overriding, simple reason. The national economy died. Banks no longer had money in which to loan to builders, and the housing bubble building up for over 2 decades finally and fatally burst. Consumers stopped spending money, therefore businesses stopped expanding.

There is nothing a local county commissioner can do to change that or fix that.

Nothing.

All he or she can do is get government out of the way when the economy does finally come back, which will only happen when the federal government gets out of the way and consumers finally have enough confidence to spend again.

Oh, and that "under-utilized infrastructure" he likes to cite above is a direct result of the SPLOST expenditures he ran against during his campaign. How convenient.

Finally, I'm not buying into any millage rate increase until I see what staff positions are being eliminated. If engineering, roads and bridges, communications, and overages in other non-public safety positions are not being eliminated in the upcoming budget, then Comm. Bell's cries of "conservative principles" will ring very hollow.

In our family, we have a saying, “It’s not how you got the mule in the ditch, it’s how you get it out”. The trick to getting out of the ditch is to shake off the dirt and take a step up.

Of course, we need to find solutions to our budget shortfall but this is just a window dressing for politics as usual in Forsyth County. If you have been involved in Forsyth County politics for any amount of time, you recognize all this rhetoric for what it is.

“First term Commissioner, Patrick Bell, rolled out the foundation for something unheard of in Forsyth County in decades, a plan to stimulate growth”.

Obviously, either a newcomer or Patrick wrote the article. Are you serious? We were #1 and # 2 in growth for years. These are not new ideas. This is the first step in laying the groundwork to insure Charlie Laughinghouse and Jim Harrell are removed from office by labeling their decisions as pandering to the “Anti-Growth” or “no growth” group. Can you say Taubman? Maybe it is time for Charlie and Jim to leave but remove them based on their record not a label that has no basis. I urge you to go back and see why they voted for a moratorium and you won’t let this label be your guide to finding a solution to our problem. This is old, very old. Those of us that have given our time to serve this County deserve more that just labels to describe that service.

Patrick we compensate you very well to look for solutions to our budget deficit so earn your money and come up with something new, instead of the old model of labeling, as solutions, to some very serious problems in the County. It needs to stop. It’s irresponsible at a minimum. It reminds me of my grandchildren when they are fighting. “She started it, no he started it”. It doesn’t matter who started it just stop!

“I realize we are approaching an election year but we need to remain strong and committed to conservative principals now, more than ever.”

Great words but it’s time to live by them. We don’t need the hypocrisy of politicians that don’t pay their own taxes but want to raise mine as a solution. When you have exhausted all waste in our County government then we can discuss raising taxes. Patrick, as you continue with the “Conservative principals” rhetoric remember those principals should result in a values.

Bottom line, shake off the dirt and take a step up. We will be watching on July 14.

In times of financial shortfalls.....stop spending! Run the county like you would a business of your own. Recognize those areas where the financial hemorrhaging is taking place and cauterize it. No businessperson in their right mind would foolishly spend and cover up for outright thefts like we stupidly do here in Forsyth County.

The waste and thievery within the Sheriff’s Department is so bad that nothing short of a Justice Dept. investigation can set straight what is going on in the Bonding and Federal Drug Seizure Fund areas alone. We are decades behind in investigating these parasitic areas that suck the blood from us.

In the recently released Sawyer Report it became well known that the Superior and State Court judges “declined to participate”....guess why. The real question is; “what are they hiding?” The FCSO was barely touched at all in the forensic investigation although this department is the very worst financial gobbling offender. You’re not hearing nearly enough about this either.

I can easily see too Bettina that Patrick Bell wishes to make a name for himself by using very tired political nonsense that equates to tearing off soup labels and presenting them as his own ideas. Oh how ingenious that raising our taxes is in this time when each of us struggles to survive and is suggestive of a smart idea.

Patrick, you search for ways to stop spending and I’ll listen to what you have to say. You mention raising my taxes again in this depression and I’ll do my level best to get you booted from office as soon as feasibly possible.

Great comments, Bettina!

To put another stake into the "no growth" bull that Comm. Bell likes to spout, let's look at the rate of zoning approvals for the years 2005-2008 (the years Charlie and I served on the county commission, and the one's Comm. Bell is likely referring to).

How can one describe a "no growth" mentality in a county which approved greater than 95% of all rezonings brought before them?

How can one describe "no growth" to a county which gave approximately $20 MILLION tax dollars away to commercial developers such as Great Wolf, The Avenues and Taubman?

How can one describe "no growth" to a county which just last year approved the largest mixed-use development in District 4, and did it with no postponements or delays?

The FACTS are that the board I served on stopped only one major re-zoning in Forsyth County in the entire four-year period; the re-zoning of Lanier Golf Course. And we did so because it clearly didn't fit the area it was proposed to be in. If Jack Manton had brought a low-density housing project to the board, I would have voted to approve it in a heartbeat.

We were even willing to allow WalMart to build a third store in Forsyth County (after approving one earlier), but just didn't want them to encroach on a stream buffer. We didn't stop them from coming here - they chose not to build in accordance with our laws (and the economy stopped them as well).

The campaign is long over, Patrick. Now it is time to lead. Cut the budget. Keep taxes low. Be fiscally conservative.

The boogeyman you're looking for doesn't exist.

“…unheard of in Forsyth County in decades, a plan to stimulate growth.” Wow. Has the County actually stopped growing? I had not noticed, what with the recent Honda, DRG and Venable re-zonings that will bring upwards of 2 million new square feet of retail and a new Honda dealership to the County.

But why get bogged down in the details.

Instead, I want to take issue with the assessment that the County and Board of Commissioners took a “…direction…several years ago as it relates to ‘no growth’” and that this supposed “no growth attitude” has resulted in a shortfall of funding, further implying that this “…eliminated…one source of revenue.” What source of revenue, exactly, would that be? Residential taxes? Because the only moratorium imposed by the County was for residential re-zoning. So, apart from the fact that this statement is not true, it is also supremely ironic as one of the reasons for the moratorium in the first place was the gross imbalance in the tax digest between too much residential (which draws disproportionally on County services relative to tax revenue) and too little commercial development.

I would also ask to identify these “anti-growth groups” pressuring the Board to ‘stop growth”. I have yet to encounter such a group. To be sure, there is active, healthy community involvement in forcing the County to adhere to its own Unified Development Code – for example, the recent effort to ensure that the County did not barter away the hard-fought Peachtree Parkway Overlay for the new Honda dealership on HWY 141. And certainly, groups have fought to preserve aspects of the rural nature of our County that have made the quality of life in Forsyth so exceptional. And unquestionably groups have fought to protect the County’s watershed from permanent destruction from, more irony, too much unplanned growth – rampant over building, clear cutting, rapid permitting that has left some 20,000 residential lots approved but un-built today.

All that said, I commend the idea of working on “…a plan that will identify several areas of Forsyth County that have infrastructure in place, have roadways that are currently under utilized and is ready to accept business growth..”. That sounds like a smart growth – infrastructure first approach to bringing desired, long term, quality businesses and development to the County. But what I cannot figure out is why this would require the County to “…streamline the permitting process and allow a business to get from conception to cash registers ringing faster than ever…”. What does that mean, exactly? What streamlining will take place? What part of the process would be trimmed? And what kinds of businesses are we trying to attract? Are we targeting green businesses of the future? Or will this simply be additional retail and service businesses that must, by their very nature, rely on continued population growth and more residential development? Before we panic and start relaxing what few standards we have and are actually enforcing now – how about a thoughtful discussion about how much growth we can sustain, and how that growth should go forward, given our current water supply challenges? What is the desired maximum population of the County? And where? Should we put some teeth to our Future Land Use map? Our Comprehensive Plan? How about we simply start to rigorously follow the provisions of the UDC and force appropriate due diligence by businesses that wish to locate here?

We remain the 15th wealthiest county in the Nation (1), with an unemployment rate below that of the State and Country (2), the lowest unincorporated county millage rate in the State (3), and yet we continue to act the part of “the victim” when it comes to development. We continue to cry that all development is inevitable and uncontrollable. We decide out of fear -- fear that businesses won’t want to locate here -- to ignore the Comprehensive Plan, shy away from the Future Land Use Map, to eviscerate and not enforce our own Unified Development Code and disregard the hard work of Envision 2030 – all strong, well thought out tools that could, if we choose, make Forsyth County the crown jewel of Metro Atlanta. This is not an “anti-growth” stance. It is a smart growth stance. It is a stance for responsible growth – appropriate growth – well planned and thoughtful growth. It is growing for the long term not the short -- not simply growing for growth’s sake.

Businesses want to locate here. Families want to live here. When you hold all the cards, you play from a position of strength. Unfortunately, we are still waiting for the County and Board to even look at the hand that has been dealt to them.

(1) 20 highest-income counties by median household income (2006), US Census Bureau, 2006 American Community Survey, via Forbes.

(2) US Bureau of Labor and Statistics, retrieved 30 JUN 09 from http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet;jsessionid=a230a1533e442644432a.

(3) Georgia Department of Revenue, retrieved 30 JUN 09 from https://etax.dor.ga.gov/ptd/cds/csheets/LGSGeorgiaCountyAdValoremTaxDigestMillageRatesbyTaxingJurisdictionPTSR006OD_2008.pdf

There is an economic principle that states that profits breed competition and that excess profits breed ruinous competition. In the early years of this century our county experienced very profitable development, supply and demand were in reasonable balance. Then our government got involved and promoted more growth through easy money and relaxed credit standards. That allowed exceptional profits (for a short while). Those exceptional profits bred rapid, out of control, development, way beyond any reasonable measure of demand. It was a bubble and that bubble burst as they always do and we now have an oversupply that will take years to be brought back into balance. In the meantime, the competition to sell off that oversupply will result in lower and lower prices, no profits, foreclosures and bankruptcies. Commissioner Bell seem to think that the way out of this historic economic downturn is to promote more development, to expand the already extreme imbalance between supply and demand. He simply doesn't understand basic economics. When there is an oversupply of any product adding to that oversupply will do nothing but prolong the agony.

Even though some of the statements in the article were "slightly amiss", the ensuing dialogue has been great to read - some really sound comments.

I especially like the "mule in a ditch" comments from Mrs. Hammond; where do we go from here?

Performance from civil servants, especially in the "efficiency evaluation" aspect could not be more important. Surely, they are looking into ways to "cross-train" County employees, that they may serve in double-duty, rather than the "specialist/single-purpose" role. Also, the "salaried" employees may have to put forth more time at work (five "10's and/or Saturdays). This will not only meet needs without hiring additional staff, but it will not increase the existing payroll, either.

And if the "80/20 Rule" applies to the Forsyth County government (80% of the payroll goes to 20% of the staff - as in upper management), some of those folks need to roll up their sleeves and "get into a ditch" or be given their walking papers - the "ship" is taking on water...all hands man a bucket.

Needless to say, or maybe not, the County will not be purchasing a golf course, will they?

I consider the owner, publisher and "editors" of cumminghome.com little more than .....(fill in the blanks)

Tony, I fail to see what your opinion of people you likely don't even know has to do with Comm. Bell's proposal.

The fact that cumminghome.com provides an informational service that people read and are allowed to comment on is something needed and apreciated in this county.

Great info on County finances at:

http://www.forsythco.com/pdf/files/ForsythCountyBOC_2008CAFR%20.pdf

David,

does it not sound like somebody reporting on something. It does not say Press Release of the bell campaign. So who is responsible for distributing such lies and I mean the "unheard of" part.

"First term Commissioner, Patrick Bell, rolled out the foundation for something unheard of in Forsyth County in decades, a plan to stimulate growth".

It would also be very interesting to know who exactly wrote this for Comm. Bell, although I doubt we'll ever find that out.

I certainly hope that no one in the county Communications Dept. did so.

Mr. Bell, I have a suggestion for a growth sector business... wind energy. There is enough hot air over by Mr. Richards house to power at least half of the county and maybe more. No need to waste oil when we have Dave around to help out.

Another suggestion is the collecting of manure. Just find Bob Wilson and you'll have tons of it for use.

The pundits are at it and cannot tolerate a commissioner actually trying to help get things going again. I have been in the business world for over 50 years and all of you folks are way off base.

The moratorium that Harrell, Laughinghouse and Richard like to say meant nothing actually meant tons. It said "Forsyth County is closed, thanks for stopping by". If they think it did not impact our economic development then none have any business even having a check book of their own.

If anyone really looked at the facts you could see the truth in that revenues started to decline in 2006 yet the morons put a moratorium in place.

And yes, they stopped growth and did not plan on replacing the lost revenue. Richard claims on his website (if he has not doctored it) that he was elected to slow down growth. Harrell had a billboard that said something like "When developers win, you lose" and Laughinghouse was clearly elected by the no-growthers as he lost his own district twice.

So yeah, it was those three that were the majority and those three that ran off development, ran up debt and now we the citizens have to pay the price. Go ahead and blame Bell for the deeds of the three morons. Again, at least he is trying to do something.

Mr. Richard, as one of the culprits, I would expect you to spew your idiocy so I discount your nonsense at first glance.

Ms. Hammond, you may not know me but I do know you well. You are still mad that Bell did not put you back on the planning commission. You were also part of David Richard’s idiocy so I don’t put much in your comments either. Compensate well? What planet did you just arrive from? And let’s not talk about people past shall we? Those that have lived here long enough know your skeletons too. Everyone has a past sweetie. Some are just a little more colorful and certainly more intriguing and entertaining than someone paying off taxes. I’m sure you would agree.

Robert Slaughter? Not Bob Slaughter that is director of the special interest group “Smart Growth” ? One in the same? That would explain it. Your group is the one that held up the Honda dealer over a few inches of bush height. Trouble makers your group is and I think partly to blame for our revenue problem. Let’s put in a hemp and mussel farm and all join hands and have a group tree hug!

And Milum? Come on dude…you cost the county over a quarter of a million a year in your silly open record requests, or more. You should stop your lunacy and we could save a lot of money. Milum, you would do better by supporting someone that realizes what harm the three morons did to this county than spouting off like your bud DR.

So I suppose that David, Bettina, David and Bob really want to criticize a guy that wants to jump start some activity, put people to work, generate some additional property taxes and generate some sales tax revenue. But anyone that knows you all knows why you would act like you do.

Guilty people are always quick to defend their actions, huh?

David Richard? How in the world will you ever get a job spending so much time blogging? Don't think that the sock company will be secure as they are trying to screw their suppliers with a bankruptcy and will probably close stores. And if you have free time your neighbors still complain about the weeds and mildewed cars. Plus the dog poop smell is too much to handle. Take care of some honey-dos instead of blogging!

You had your chance and blew it by getting nothing accomplished and spending time on things like Charlie's office. You spent more time fighting and calling names than benefiting the county. Don't blame Bell because he is trying to make the best of a mess you and the others created.

Mike K, I don't give a rat's patoot about you alleged business skills; you don't know jack about what you're posting.

Make the case, Mikey-boy. Please tell us how a residential moratorium in a small county in Georgia that lasted less than 9 months could kill the economy of the entire NATION!

Business world, my Aunt Fannie!

Apparently the economy of the entire world has passed you by in the last 50 years of ignorance you have lived, Mikey. Perhaps you missed the part where banks no longer had money to lend builders - across the nation. Perhaps you missed the part where consumer confidence dropped - across the nation. Apparently you were busy when the commercial sector decided to retrench because people were no longer spending money they didn't have - across the nation. Perhaps you missed the part where consumer credit dried up - across the nation. Yeah, Mikey, it was the actions of a small county commission in Forsyth County, Ga, that caused all those national builders to go into bankruptcy, right?

You, sir, are a class-A, Number 1 MORON when it comes to economic issues.

Now, let's move onto another idiotic statement you made (among so many others). The three of us (Laughinghouse, Harrell and I) ran up debt. Right. You do know, don't you, that county governments are forbidden to run up debt, don't you? We must pass a balanced budget each and every year, and cannot spend that which we do not anticipate receiving.

Which we never did.

Oh, and answer me this one, Mikey, while you take another toke on your weed. How can a county commission stop growth when they: A. Do not put in place a permitting moratorium. B. Do not put in place a building moratorium. C. Do not put in place a commercial rezoning moratorium. D. Approve over 95% of all rezoning requests brought before them. E. Give away approximately $20 MILLION tax dollars to businesses to entice them to build here. F. Do all this with over 29,000 homes already rezoned and not yet built. G. Expand the road and water infrastructure to accommodate future growth.

Man it up, Mikey, and make that case. Jerk.

Yeah, Mikey, I slowed down growth, and I am proud of it. We were a car careening down a highway with no controls and no one at the wheel. All I did was keep growth to the plan the government and the people provided with our Future Land Use Map - nothing more, nothing less. You'll find if you talk with the people in the thick of things regarding rezonings that I did little to slow down zoning requests and provided the best balance between property owners and developers in many years.

Patrick Bell is damned lucky to have roads and infrastructure available for him to use to target businesses as he would like to do. It won't help him if the national economy doesn't get better, but if it does, we gave him something to work with. Yeah, that's right, Mikey - all of us slow growth commissioners did all the hard work so that Patrick Bell can use it as a punch line.

Ironic, isn't it?

Try using REAL FACTS next time, Mikey. Or better yet, don't even try again. You are not in anyone's league here.

Richard? Get a life (job) man!

Marvin, Marvin, Marvin.

I see that they've had an escape from the Yerkes Primate Research Center over in Gwinnett again, haven't they?

See, you lost the argument the second you brought up my personal information, instead of trying to use FACTS to argue with me, or anyone else.

Now, sit down and try to make a cogent argument about how a local county commissioner can do anything to stimulate a national economic meltdown, and maybe then we can converse.

Otherwise, I'll have the call the people over at Yerkes and let them know where you are.

Richard? Get a life (job) will ya please????

I fail to see where anyone on our planet mentioned a commissioner stimulating the national economy. You are moronic as ever.

I don't think you would ever give Bell credit for anything so it makes no difference. Besides, anyone you ever supported ending up losing so it's probably better this way.

Just take a hint? Get a life. Your negative attitude will end up killing you. I may not like you too much but I don't want you to kick off due to hatred and strife.

Actually Marvin, I have given credit for Bell in his stance regarding the anti-tethering ordinance, and you'll also notice (if your reading comprehension skills have not degraded further) that his attempt to streamline the process for premitting and building is admirable.

However, he is trying to do something that cannot be done - turn around the results of a NATIONAL ECONOMIC MELTDOWN. Taubman was given almost $20 million dollars in incentives to build their mall here. Do you see them pulling permits, Marvin? Of course not. They have EVERYTHING in place that this county can give to them, and they aren't coming here, Marvin.

So what makes you think that Patrick Bell can reverse the national commercial retrenchment on expansion by doing things differently in Forsyth County?

It sounds so good, but it is a waste of time in the long run. It is political grandstanding at it's worst.

Again Richard, I fail to see where anyone on our planet mentioned a commissioner stimulating the national economy.

Please, I have been reading this site tonight and see you argue, ridicule, berate and generally make yourself a fool. Get a life (job) and don't spend your days blogging. It's not mentally healthy and I suspect you are already on shake ground there.

MikeK Open records requests are usually paid by the person doing the request, not any other taxpayer. But please do correct me if I am wrong.

Again, Marvin, you are too dense to understand simple reality.

Patrick Bell makes a statement that he is coming up with a plan to get aggresive towards growth. Fine.

Except that a local county commissioner can do nothing about atracting businesses to Forsyth County, if the national economy is in a meltdown.

Therefore, there is nothing Patrick Bell can do about stimulating growth locally until the national economy is fixed, which isn't going to be anytime soon given who is in charge right now.

So, except for removing a couple of impediments to permitting, this announcement is nothing more than political grandstanding by Patrick Bell.

And keep your amateur psychobabble to yourself. I have yet to read a single statement from you that shows any latent intelligence, so I have no reason to believe that you know anything about which you write.

TerryB, let's just say that Moron Milum has never been billed for the true cost of his many forays into insanity, and leave it at that.

He's cost taxpayers about $100k with his antics that will never be paid back, and wasted hours of attorney time that could have been used for something productive.

David R. by now you should have noticed that an IQ of more than 100 does not give you an advantage in Forsyth county GA . To understand some of the posters like Marvin or Mike K. you need to be at 65. Even the Romans gave up fighting against lunatics why do you still try ?

It is my fervent hope, Tony, that some day one of these mental midgets might actually learn something more than being able to count to twenty without having to remove their shoes.

I happen to be a psychologist (retired) and I don't know if Marvin is trained but he does speak the truth. Sorry, but I had to call you out on that one, sir.

I have watched you for a couple of months here and then perused your website and other postings around the community blogs. I would consider reopening my practice if you would consider becoming a contract client. :)

Just an uneducated opinion and a bit of humor here:

Lighten up and you will be a happier and more productive person person. If you really care about our community then dig in with the commissioners, offer your experiences, and make this a better county. Your unending criticism and complaints are not helpful, and probably harmful, so cheer up old chap! Become a positive force in Forsyth County as Bell is trying to do.

Out with David Richard. We need a commissioner who finds something more important to do for our county than spend (obviously) most of his time blogging

I respectfully disagree Mr. Richard. Anyone can do orr's at any time and it is not a waste of taxpayers dollars because as far as I know the charge is applied to the requester and that is it. What does the county charge for ORR's? I have done several and I paid for them and gladly did so. BTW - have a nice day!

This is the secret tool that most researchers don't know or are afraid to use. It is as forceful today as the day it was ratified in the State Capitol.

GEORGIA CODE

TITLE 45. PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES CHAPTER 6. POWERS AND DUTIES GENERALLY

O.C.G.A. § 45-6-6 (2007)

§ 45-6-6. Office property kept by officers subject to inspection by citizens

All books, papers, and other office property kept by any public officer under the laws of this state shall be subject to the inspection of all the citizens of this state within office hours every day except Sundays and holidays.

HISTORY: Laws 1831, Cobb's 1851 Digest, p. 196; Code 1863, § 16; Code 1868, § 14; Code 1873, § 14; Code 1882, § 14; Civil Code 1895, § 14; Civil Code 1910, § 14; Code 1933, § 89-601.

Here is a typical Request:

Forsyth County Citizen’s Oversight Committee 4300 Jot Em Down Road Cumming, Ga. 30040

April 16, 2009

Jarrard & Davis 105 Pilgrim Village Drive, Suite 200 Cumming, Ga. 30040 C/O Ken Jarrard

Ref; Open Records Inspection Request under OCGA 45.6.6

Subject: Forsyth County Voter Registrar/Director Gary Smith

On March 17, 2009 I requested from you Mr. Jarrard; all documents related to an ongoing or expected report by a Mr. Sawyer on Voter Registrar Gary Smith’s receiving comp time from Forsyth County. The subsequent email reply by you on Monday, March 23, 2009 3:55 PM stated that the report was not finished at that time, specifically you replied; “With respect to item 2, you are referencing the Sawyer and Assoc. “internal controls” report that is currently in the works. That report is not yet completed. I will be happy to produce once the County is in receipt of the final report and it has been presented to the BOC.”

This is a three part Records correspondence.

1. I wish to respectfully remind you that naturally I expect a delivery of the finalized “Sawyer Report”, as you have kindly offered in the March 23 letter, as soon as it arrives to the county and you as applicable recipients. That should not mean a delivery days later of course.

2. Provide for my visual inspection all phone records for Gary Smith from the days of January 1, 2004 to April 16, 2009.

3. Provide for my visual inspection all Internet cookies and Internet history of Gary Smith’s office computers that he personally uses. (Note: those computers used normally and restricted to other Registrar Office personnel are exempt on this request) This should include his home computers as he has in the past used his own personal computers to respond to the Citizens concerning his county position as Registrar/Director.

Please advise when these records can be available to inspect by the Georgia Law 45-6-6. If you have any questions feel free to correspond to me by email. Thank you Ken for your cordial help in these matters of Law.

David Milum Forsyth County Citizen’s Oversight Committee

Dan, don't give up your day job.

TerryB, you continue to be dead wrong on virtually everything you post. We are allowed to bill for clerk time to gather records, and for the cost to copy those records. We ARE NOT allowed to bill for attorney time to prepare those records or to redact those records of personal information.

Subsequently, all the time that someone at Ken Jarrard's office has to spend in cleansing each and every ORR that MORON MILUM makes costs taxpayers money. This is because giving sensitive personal information in error to Moron Milum is like giving a loaded gun to a 4-year old.

In addition, every minute wasted on the ORR's from the lunatic fringe keeps important business from being conducted in the admin bldg and at the lawyer's office. And since none of these requests has ever produced a shred of evidence or proof of their lunatic ravings, it becomes a monumental waste of time and money for this county.

Moron Milum and the lunatic fringe have cost this county hundreds of thousands of wasted dollars in time and effort, and have nothing to show for it.

Believe this in black and white:

http://www.aboutforsyth.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4582&highlight=david+richard

(yawn)

That again, Moron Milum? Is that all you've got?

What are you 0-fer everything you've ever alleged in your lifetime? Loser of not one, not two, but three trials - one of which you were ruled against by the judge - when you were the one who brought the legal action in the first place! Have you paid the county back for the legal fees you cost us when Angie Davis whipped your sorry behind in the Marcie Kreager case?

Moved on from that debacle, have we?

Yeah, lets make accusations against Gary Smith and say that he committed a felony by using comp time, because since he isn't a Forsyth County employee, he isn't entitled to any. How's that working out fer ya, Moron Milum? Of course, the fact that we pay him under the rules of the Forsyth County Compensation System might just mean he is entitled to comp time, isn't it? And are you having any more trouble counting up the available hours in a given day and month? Here's a hint: Use your toes. They can double the amount of days you can count if you are incapable of using paper and pencil.

And just how much did Rafe Banks and Joe Gooden win in judgments against you for your libelous remarks about them?

And what ever happened to the complaint you filed in Magistrate Court against me? Oh, yeah - that was dismissed by the judge without even hearing the case! I can still hear him laughing about that one!

What a sorry piece of crap you turned out to be.

My, oh, my, how testy some get when I post the proof that they lied about posting anonymously. I’ll bet those posters whom you attacked for posting anonymously here are getting a kick from [that] link. Never has “protesteth too mucheth” been so relevant. But we have been down this road many times in the last year so I won’t bust you too hard this time. It is way too easy.

Only I have to say that not only are you the very same lying runt you were during election time you still refuse to take that lie detector test with me too. What’s the matter, are you scared little coward? Crawl over here and jump off into this trap. You know that you can find it as I don’t have to camouflage them anymore…you know… like I did during the Election…you do remember the Election don’t you? Let me see…who was it now that scraped the meat off your bones? Oh yes, that really nice fellow Patrick Bell whipped you up like sour cream. You are having a lot of trouble with that aren’t you?

Talk big now and for goodness sakes swell up that bony Yankee chest so you’ll look bigger so the birds won’t think you’re lunch. I almost forgot how much fun it was poking at you. And to think I have been depriving myself for months now.

P.S. since you are begging for a job now and considering no one will come close to hiring you I’ll do my Christian duty so you won’t starve to death and offer you my table scraps. I have a few Bar-B-Que ribs to spare and some homemade soup too. I’ll get the Misses to dip that up for you tonight. Just run on by now. Please don’t take this personal because we have to face facts that some are not capable of providing for themselves as you seem to having trouble doing. There no sin in being poor but you will have to swallow some of that misplaced pride to make a go of it. Whoops! you don’t have any pride do you? Proof of that can be had by riding past your house. Excuse me for being so thoughtless.

Let's see, the man (and I use that term loosely here) who has never, ever proved a single accusation he's made against anyone since 1998 - a simply remarkable lack of accomplshment unknown in the annals of human history - is now providing "proof" that I lied.

Well, isn't THAT special!

Watch out, Chicken Little of Forsyth County, the sky is falling!

When you tell a big fat lie then immediately in the very same sentence admit that I proved you a liar make you dizzy? Don't bother to thank me for noticing as most of the visitors here know you so well too.

"THE PROOF" that you are a cowardly liar was posted many moons ago. Yep sure was, and I got your butt run off from office because of it didn't I, right before your political sky fell on you like a ton of bricks? Thanks for the chuckle. I love watching you spin around in little Yankee circles wherein you shoot yourself in the foot. I take great pride in that and quite a bit of humorous enjoyment.

Here's you another dictionary entry to argue with:

Liar

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liar

–noun; a person who tells lies. A person who knowingly utters falsehood; one who lies. "be untruthful"

Synonyms: falsifier, perjurer, prevaricator.

Get ready, get set, GO! START LYING!

Of course, there are other definitions out there as well.

Loser - See: David Milum

Moron - See: David Milum

Chicken Little - See: David Milum

Need I go on?

Psychotic - See: David Milum

Unfortunately, 'growth' is not the remedy for tax shortage, but instead, fosters increased tax loads on the existing residents. The remedy is to cut spending !! Just like a regular business has to do.... Using 'county growth' as a method of solving money problems is akin to a pyramid scheme......Somewhere it's going to collapse.........

Normally, Donald, I agree with you, especially on the cut spending part.

But what Comm. Bell is proposing is getting aggressive with business growth, which usually more than pays for itself in taxes vs. expenses. If he were talking about residential growth, then you'd be right. It was estimated that for every home built in Forsyth County for less than $380,000 in value, we lost tax money on the deal.

And we built a lot of houses valued at leass than $380,000.

It was the business tax that helped us to make ends meets, and still does today. Again, I don't have any problem with his goal, I just question whether he realizes that he has nothing to do with attracting businesses to Forsyth County in a national economic meltdown.

My goodness Mr. Richard seems to really know how to shuffle those figures and his use of "WE" points directly towards his inability to realize that he isn't wanted any longer in local politics. Similar to how his long suffering neighbors prefer to see him gone too. Since his pitiful life is so shallow and so without future his past history as a county commission is all he has to reflect on, actually pretty sad. Strange indeed that he is so self-aggrandizing in financial matters but noticeably odd that he begs for a normal job and he has no takers or offerers. Go figure!

I have been very fortunate in my life to have had wonderful neighbors, too bad the resident of Riverstone can’t say the same about Yankee Dave. I will be the first to offer up bribe money to send to some Massachusetts firm to hire him back up there so we can rid ourselves of him here. Anyone willing to chip in to this good cause? Maybe I can poll Riverstone for help.

But we have to remember the quip about the similarities between bloody hemorrhoids and potty mouthed Godless Yankees who uninvited squat in the South.

Interesting that you us the word "bribe", Moron Milum; a bribe being soethig illegal.

How do you feel about the word "blackmail" as it applies to an elected official? You do know blackmail is illegal, don't you?

Sit down Satan!

What's the matter Moron Milum? Cat suddenly got your tongue?

No witty remarks about my lawn, or how you caught me lying, or belittling my job?

Maybe the term "blackmail" hits a little too close to home to you and your merry band of lunatics? Hmmmmm?

You DO know blackmail is illegal, don't you?

Maybe the definition of blackmail will refresh your memory, Moron Milum?

"Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal substantially true information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand made upon the victim is met."

But blackmail is such an ugly word, isn't it? Perhaps "extortion" is the more socially acceptable word to use in this instance, isn't it?

Fact....

David Richard. 1 term, 10% loss in the primary, washed up.

Also, needs to do something with lawn.

Also, also... you might consider taking your car in to have it detailed. It looks pretty bad.

Fact: When you have nothing to refute what I say, attack me personally.

That is the modus operandi of Bob Wilson.

Don't have to refute when you are so totally wrong.

I actually have a full time job and well manicured lawn. My neighbors don't hate me.

My cars are nicely detailed each week.

Oh yeah.... and I actually wear suits that are in style and fit properly.

Have a nice day, Dave. 1 term, 10% loss in the primary, washed up.

Actually, Bob, you do have to refute if you want any credibility in this world. I don't care about your personal situation, as it doesn't affect me and it isn't relevant to this discussion. What I do care about is intellectual integrity and honesty, of which you have none. It takes a fourth-grade mentality to say "You're wrong, and I don't have to prove it". It takes an adult to make the case, point by point, on WHY you think I'm wrong.

Which is something you never, ever do.

See Bob Wilson.

See Bob Wilson hump my leg.

Hump, Bob Wilson, hump.

David Richard Jul 6, 2009 2:22am [ 50 ] "What I do care about is intellectual integrity and honesty, of which you have none."

And the winner of the spin and liar's competition IS!

http://www.aboutforsyth.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4582

http://www.aboutforsyth.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4584

And for comedic relief:

http://www.aboutforsyth.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4569

DR - you said: "It was estimated that for every home built in Forsyth County for less than $380,000 in value, we lost tax money on the deal.

And we built a lot of houses valued at leass than $380,000." END QUOTE:::

Can you explain the tax structure in this (details on how this is happening/happened...what mechanisms, construction permit fee, inspection cost/fees, etc)?

And what would you suggest to correct this? I am not understanding how this is true, please oblige me.

Thank you.

Jim, there are a lot of studies out there regarding home values and the property tax rates needed to support the resulting infrastructure costs, but they swing wildly depending on who does them.

In short, when you build a home with 4 bedrooms and 2/12 or 3 bathrooms, most of the time you're going to get a family in that house. That means schools, which cost money to build and operate. Roads have to be built and/or widened. Water and sewer systems need to be expanded. Libraries, parks and other amenities as well. And as always, fire and police protection.

The problem is in keeping the tax base low enough to attract growth to keep your base growing, but not too high to kill the desire to move here, while still providing the services people are looking for.

You also have to provide the commercial growth needed to support your residential base. No sense having all those residents without having places to go out to eat, buy groceries and clothing, etc. Your commercial tax base helps to offset some of the longer-term losses you take in residential property taxes, but let's face it; ultimately, the end consumer pays all those taxes, as companies simply pass on the cost of taxes to the consumer.

Finally, you try to make your county a destination for other people to come to with entertainment opportunities, so that your visitors can help your tax base by purchasing items and supporting your sales tax base. The Chamber used to crow about how 20% of SPLOST taxes were covered by visitors to this county, until I debunked that little myth, but visitors do likely account for about 10% of county SPLOST.

It is a balance that is hard to strike, and something that some of us worked hard to maintain. But the bottom line is that residential property tax rates alone are a "loss-leader" for county governments unless the homes are big enough to offset the people they bring with them.

I've been in development-related work most all of my vocational years - I understand the dynamics associated with it. What flabbergasted me - is any government on the City or County level (apart from a major "external" revenue source - ie "Orange County FL with the 10% bed/tourist/sales tax siphoned from visitors) running a "tax structure" in any such manner. It blows my mind that "growth" would not pay for itself on EVERY LEVEL (sustainability).

This means higher taxes on the front end, versus higher taxes on the "back end" (equals bailouts + mandatory increased taxes). While I deeply appreciate any City Council or County Commish making growth attractive to potential newcomers (residential and commercial...as well as industrial, for that matter), there must be a ginger balance with (impact) fees and restrained governmental expansion; and the "fulcrum" in that equation is "does it pay for itself?" (if not initially, how many years?).

David, you just told me that homes below "$380,000" have an answer as "NEVER"? WOW!

My initial question was geared more to "what source/model was used?" Surely there is some foundational basis (research) for establishing the "structure" that brought us to the present tax dilemma?

Please tell me that it was far more cautious and pondering than "hey yall, let's try this" (unless, in all fairness to you, that was so many years before your involvement that you genuinely do not know)?

And by all means, I'm not looking to call names or blame prematurely whomever may or may not still be around that set this losing proposition in place...but "Where do we want to go? How are we gonna get there?"

Right?

Jim, until we got Jim Harrell's third vote n the board, there was zero - nada - zip interest in even performing an Infrastructure Stude so that we could see where we were before deciding where we wanted to be.

Before that, it was anything goes, katie bar the door, we don't care what we do as long as we approve everything our campaign contributors wanted us to approve.

Which is why I'm STILL the only commissioner to have never taken a dime from developers or their attorneys.

Nevertheless, we still have our 2025 plan for ultimate buildout, and a Future Land Use Map that supports that plan. The difference is that some commissioners don't look at that plan, and some don't even know it exists.

You get the government you pay for, and we pay too much and get too little from the five we have in place right now.

But few miss the arrogance, the insane genius in training, the childish insults, and most of all the previous outright lying from District 4. "We're thisssss close to getting a water withdrawal permit!" "You'll never see my name on a ballot" "I am not David Richard!" "Sorry, but my compassion extends only to my personal life, not to my governmental life," "And since I don't believe in a life after death, nor of penance, I am not worried about being chained." "Compassion has no place in government." All attributed to David Richard.

Shall I go on?

To: David Milum

dave richard [tiberius1701@comcast.net] Fri 3/7/2008 7:40 PM

Remove the offending aspect of your post regarding me

Mr. Milum,

        Apparently you like losing judgments against you. Your post below is categorically false

in regards to Angela (not Anglia, you wretched cretin) Davis’ involvement in the Hansard matter. You, more than anyone, should know that I cannot be coerced or enlisted by anyone. You have been told by multiple people involved with this matter that Ms. Davis was never, ever spoken to nor corresponded with regarding this matter. You clearly have not bothered to find fact regarding this matter, since you cannot possibly have found anyone associated with this matter that has any evidence that Ms. Davis or I (or anyone on the county commission for that matter) have ever discussed this case.

        As such, I demand (not request) that you edit the portion of this post that concerns me 

and remove any reference to my being coerced or enlisted to do anything by Angela Davis.
See the beginning of the post below with date, time and offending paragraph in bold. I suggest you remember the last time you refused to remove a libelous post and the subsequent consequences.

• • David W. Richard, Commissioner – District 4

p.s. Note to Anna McManus: Case law provides that websites and their owners/operators are not exempt from legal action if they do not properly police the actions of their members. Get control of your dog by demanding proof or removing the offending post. I am through tolerating the crap on your website about me.

Fri 3/7/2008 10:24 PM

http://www.aboutforsyth.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4582

And then he was kicked out of office like a mangy dog by a complete political novice. The End.

Posted back on July 5, yet strangely failed to be answered by Moron Milum. Why is it that Forsyth County's "Chicken Little" refuses to directly answer questions made of him? Answer the questions below, Moron Milum!:

What's the matter Moron Milum? Cat suddenly got your tongue?

No witty remarks about my lawn, or how you caught me lying, or belittling my job?

Maybe the term "blackmail" hits a little too close to home to you and your merry band of lunatics? Hmmmmm?

You DO know blackmail is illegal, don't you?

Maybe the definition of blackmail will refresh your memory, Moron Milum?

"Blackmail is the crime of threatening to reveal substantially true information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand made upon the victim is met."

But blackmail is such an ugly word, isn't it? Perhaps "extortion" is the more socially acceptable word to use in this instance, isn't it?

I'd be moderately interested in knowing what in this world you're taking about now lying coward David Richard. Does this have anything with you making it worse for Gary J. Smith? Talking about not responding, how about you responding to the documented proof that you Sir are Forsyth County most renowned liar.

Moron Milum, your "proof" remains noting but unsubstantiated accusations, genetic stupidity and poor education. Followed by even more unsubstantiated accusations, which, when challenged, brings out more unsubstantiated accusations.

Let's see. How many separate charges have you brought against everyone? And how many of those charges have ever been proven in a court of law?

What's that Moron? I didn't hear you. Speak up.

None, you say?

And how many times have you been dragged into a court of law, only to lose your case?

I'm sorry, my hearing must be messed up.

Three times?

So, you really ARE an 0-fer, aren't you?

Bottom line, Moron, I responded time after time after time to your false charges of lying, and you just can't seem to understand the English language. I'm sorry that you are too stupid to understand that, but that is not my fault, it is yours.

What does it mean "gets aggressive towards growth"? Look at the past 4-5 budgets - THEY'VE DOUBLED THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT!

The County went from "3%" increase from 2002>2003, to double-digit increase every year thereafter. I guess they were just trying to keep pace with Capitol Hill!

Someone has got to answer for this.

"Lying Coward David Richard" Google it! See $10,000.00 challenge that is still good. We can set that up for next week.