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I can still remember years ago, when Dick Russell, who used to make them keep a lot more in reserves, would tell them that they would someday be glad they had all of that money available.

Wonder what they now think of Quesenberry's belief that it was perfectly acceptable to spend a huge chunk of our reserves?

If we still had that money in the bank...

The financial mismanagement and reckless spending that has taken place under the Laughinghouse regime is inexcusable.

"Living within your means", what ever happened with that? The concept that has been the bedrock of financial principle since the first granary was constructed.

Mr. Milum, how about we reel in the special interests that have fought managed growth and have helped cause this reduced revenue. We need leaders that have a plan to balance the digest, not politicians.

It is apparent that your favored commissioners Harrell & Laughinghouse, along with Richard are also partly to blame. They were in the majority when debt sky rocketed, spending was out of control and they sent the message to developers and businesses that we did not want them here.

I have not seen this budget but I will before the public hearings and I will ask questions and raise any concerns I have. But reality is that the board majority in control were living off growth and made ZERO plans to address a slow down even when it was apparent it started on 2006.

I think I would be willing to pay 15 bucks or so a month to insure our services remain in tact and hope that the board will take a look at the reputation and try to get more companies to locate here so we can still have our low taxes. Otherwise it is fact that our taxes will keep going up if we don't get the digest balanced. At least one commissioner has the courage to speak up and be truthful and try to do something. That's more than any of the others do. We don't even know if the other 4 are real or not as there is no interaction, no communication and barely a return phone call or email.

"You can't dance all night and not pay the fiddler!" We have to face the fact that the high flying Atlanta Metropolitan Economy is out of gas and it is diving out of control. Forsyth County, being outside the combat perimeter and the onerous taxing authority of Fulton County, was a direct beneficiary of the strong economic gains made by the Metro Area experiencing "suburban bedroom growth" for many years. It's over! There is nothing being added to the economy in the way of production of goods and services and a lot of what was produced is either being discontinued or transferred to another economy. We all, individually and as a local government, have to adjust to "the change" and tighten our belts and expect less.

Our County's financial position has not been helped by the agenda of the special interest groups and shrub huggers that have lobbied for adding cost to commercial growth, increasing the cost of doing business and discouraging new revenue generating business investment. Our reserves are probably meant as a short term solution to be used during the economic lows and to be replenished during the highs. However, even with "the second coming" there is no guarantee that this is a short term problem with a return to new highs in the near future! The dance is over and it is time to layoff the fiddler. Fiddling is not a necessary service.

QUOTE: "Martha Jul 1, 2009 9:42am [ 4 ]

Mr. Milum, how about we reel in the special interests that have fought managed growth and have helped cause this reduced revenue. We need leaders that have a plan to balance the digest, not politicians.

It is apparent that your favored commissioners Harrell & Laughinghouse, along with Richard are also partly to blame."

DM: Where have you been? I don't have favorites on the county commission. In fact; I am one of their worst critics. For the most part all of them do a good job, exceptions exist of course. I am also not necessarily against Pat Bell but have a current view that he is grandstanding for that purpose only. It was I who worked hardest for him to replace his competition in District 4.

I was furious that we spent all that money for green space during a recession even though the vote was in its favor. Otherwise the squandering never ceases here and that is what I yell about. Take for instance the Internet misuse and squandering of time within the Solicitors Office and that of the D.A.’s Office….not one peep from a soul at the county but instead we see a suggestion that both these offices get MORE help to abuse the Internet privileges wherein appox. 20% of the time on the job within those offices involves them playing on the Internet for non-work related reasons. Remember, I have those Internet histories, emails, and cookies on file.

Every commissioner knows perfectly well how immature and wasteful the sheriff is and all of them sit on their duffs like little dough boys while it happens uninterrupted. The 5-0 vote to ask Justice to intercede is the best thing they have ever done for the Taxpayers. Now if we can successfully see to it that they don't use this as a ploy to get the heat off them and legitimately back the request up behind the scenes instead of using subterfuge to sabotage it. If that does happen….the subterfuge part I mean….then you will see in print what really happened in the background to cause such an astounding 5-0 vote for Justice Dept. intervention.

If a public official doesn’t lie, waste my money, and cover up for criminals then I am much more likely to respect and support them. The way it always should be. “IF” I caught them blatantly committing conspiracy to cover for obvious crimes then I would be seriously concerned. The best way to keep me on your bandwagon is to keep your word.

Martha, you're a moron.

There is NO debt in Forsyth County government. NONE.

We approved over 95% of ALL rezoning requests sent to the Board of Commissioners. We gave away over $20 MILLION tax dollars to businesses like Taubman, Great Wolf, The Avenues and Sembler to attract them to Forsyth County. There was never any message sent to them that we did not want them here.

Unless, of course, you are a dumb a$$ moron who has never paid attention to your county government in your entire life.

Get a clue, Martha. Sometime in your life.

Well, David you continue to make yourself a laughingstock and a liar.

Forsyth county has no debt??????

In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals.

Thus a bond is like a loan: the issuer is the borrower (debtor), the holder is the lender (creditor), and the coupon is the interest. Bonds provide the borrower with external funds to finance long-term investments, or, in the case of government bonds, to finance current expenditure. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered to be money market instruments and not bonds. Bonds must be repaid at fixed intervals over a period of time.

Since you have no career and your only income is a part time job with a bankrupt company I suggest you keep your finance observations to yourself. Or better yet, kep your spin and lies to yourself.

And Mr. Milum, the Sheriff only answers to the voters. If they don't like him and think he does a poor job then they don't vote for him. Since he is in his third term I suggest you are a nut.

Except, Mack Z, that the "debt" of which you speak is backed by bonds approved by the voters of Forsyth County and funded by a special bond millage rate which ensures that the bonds will be paid.

Therefore, genius, there is no debt in the conventional sense of the word.

Local goernments are forbidden to go into debt, and this government is no different.

Crawl back under your rock, moron.

The master spinner is at work folks, look out!

He tried spinning and lying during the campaign and got caught and has been nabbed again!

Forsyth County has no debt Mack. Everything is bonded and by law must be paid. Local government and the state government in GA for that matter cannot constitutionally run a debt or deficit. The budgets must be balanced and the bonds must be paid. So no debt in this county.

Gary, I sure am glad you don't do my books. If you can't recognize a debt when you see one then I sure couldn't have you working for me. Bonds are loans pure and simple. A loan is a debt. It is mystifying how some argue with that fact. Similarly how some argue that State Law can be twisted to suit their fancy.

We just bought 100+- million in green space...we didn’t have that money...where did the money come from? That’s right Gary...we borrowed it from others by selling bonds. We pay that back in increments...well what do you know...like a loan...how novel.

Then our booted silly past county commissioner also spouted that this was not a “debt”. If you are going to mimic a parrot then I might suggest mocking one that hasn’t been trained by foul mouthed circus clowns.

BONDS

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bonds

1. a sealed instrument under which a person, corporation, or government guarantees to pay a stated sum of money on or before a specified day.

2. Finance. a certificate of ownership of a specified portion of a “DEBT” due to be paid by a government or corporation to an individual holder and usually bearing a fixed rate of interest.

3. Finance. to place a bonded debt on or secure a debt by bonds; mortgage.

And we'd be believing the "Chicken Little" of Forsyth County regarding anything he says because . . . why?

Nice try, Moron Milum.

Got any other unproven accusations you'd like to throw at someone to add the the string of unmitigated losses you've had since 1998?

Hey! That's it! You can put a slogan on your joke of a website that you and Princess Pruitt are the only two posting on:

"AboutForsyth.com - Failing at everything we do since 1998"

Has a nice, truthful ring to it.

And Forsyth County still doesn't have any debt. We are not allowed to have any by state law. Debt occurs in government when you don't have the money to pay your bills and do not have a balanced budget. We have both. The bonds we issue are backed by the county through a guaranteed millage rate established solely for the purpose of paying back those bonds. And THAT is backed by the vote of the people of Forsyth County.

And you are 'not' currently a county commissioner because...what was that reason again?

Niceeee....auguring with the dang dictionary, I always knew you had it in you! Enlighten us some more on DEBT as we are on pins and needles and precariously hanging on your every nasally word. I have heard all my life that a stupid Yankee would argue with a sign post....guess you proved that point satisfactorily.

Jeeze why don’t you run for another office so we can keep this up. I haven’t had so much fun since I posted this on you. http://www.aboutforsyth.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4551&highlight=david+richard

Mr. Milum, I hope that the foul mouthed parrot is not seeking employment in the finance world! He is also the one that said that the sock company was doing just fine, until it filed for backruptcy a few days later. He is a real winner all right!!!

Any "header" with "raise taxes" catches my eye. Naturally, I read the story and comments that followed. What I've gathered, is the County spent "huge chunks" of reserves. For what?

Past Commissioner ensembles established budgets "living off growth and made ZERO plans to address a slow down". While I've only been a resident (homeowner) here for slightly over three years, the only personal observation I can make towards that argument is the bond referendum.

Even though some argue that a bond is not a debt, I could not disagree more; simple accounting vets that fact (assets on one side of the ledger - expenses on the other...HELLO?).

And simply put, a "referendum" is viewed in one of two lights - a political cowardice to eschew leadership/make executive decisions or the purest of democratic processes...let the voters decide. Which is right? It depends on the integrity of all facts presented - seldom the case. In my observations, the polticos that take the referendum route, already know what they want, but lack the fortitude to stand behind their decisions. Choosing instead, to work like crafty lawyers, where words seldom mean what the "common man" thinks they mean.

Nearly EVERY politico knows what this most often means "raising taxes=voted out of office". Why is that? Again, in my opinion, it reveals a lack of long-term planning, wasteful spending and pandering to "special interest" voters - sayyyyy, those who want a rec park built, a golf course purchased, a "state of the art" jail that emphasizes "show" over "go" (as in an astronimical "per bed" price).

Are these statements unfair? We have a "referendum" coming up. My vote is to clean house.

"But when a long-train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Depotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

(It is right below the "pursuit of happiness" part in the Declaration of Independence)

"Those who fail to plan...plan to fail".

"Planning" to seek tens of millions of tax dollars for deputies this County does not need; but will carry on the County payroll is DEBT...an unnecessary one.

Expanding ANY infrastructure is DEBT; regardless of "SPLOST" funding, which pays for "land purchase and construction", there is a long-term tax burden associated with MAINTENANCE on every physical object the County owns. Again, a financial obligation is a DEBT, a tax liability and burden to the Community at large.

My desire is to unload all "burdens", throw all unnecessary cargo overboard, trim the sails and post one high in the crow's nest to spot rocks or shallow ground.

Clearly, the keel is already skipping the bottom...clear to most, anyway.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!! MAY WE THE FLAGS OF LIBERTY SAIL FOREVERMORE!!!

MAY WE - "THE FLAGS OF LIBERTY", SAIL FOREVERMORE. (or possibly...may we, may we Christmas)

Earl Polo...you are right when you say "you can't dance all night and not pay the fiddler". Special interests have controlled the board and they stopped growth before the economy dropped. They stopped growth but made no effort to recruit businesses to offset.

Then the special interests demanded more parks, libraries and other amenities (and that stupid golf course) but did not want to pay. The board then used growth to hide the fact that they were mismanaging our finances.

Those that controlled the board should be held accountable. Other than that, unless you guys have been living under a rock, taxes are going up all over the state and country. We all demanded too much of government, wanted it to pay for more than it should and now there is not revenue to pay for it all.

Well folks, it comes right back to us.

Answer these question Marc, if you can.

How does a board of commissioners stop growth when they approve greater than 95% of all rezoning requests sent to them?

How does a board of commissioners stop growth when they give away over $20 million tax dollars to commercial interests in a 3 year timeframe?

How does a board of commissioners stop growth when they never institute a permitting or building moratorium?

How does a board of commissioners stop growth when they never institute a commercial rezoning moratorium?

How do the "special interests" demand parks but refuse to pay for them, when they voted overwhelmingly to pass a Park and Rec bond referendum?

Finally, how can you be considered anything but a brain-dead mouth-breather when you post such nonsense as you just did?

I can answer that Richard. It is not an issue of approving 95% of rezoning requests. (That is a number I would have to ask you to verify as I don't buy it)

A moratorium, no matter the inventory available, communicates to those that may be interested in locating here that either we cannot handle our growth or we do not want the growth.

When a search committee is short listing communities a moratorium will knock you off the list. A moratorium is usually seen as a sign that shouts "WE ARE CLOSED" and they will not look into the details. It is fact that we need, and have for a long time, more commercial growth. Either office or retail, we need it to balance the digest. You know it and I know it. No matter how you want to spin it, a moratorium of any type will scare off commercial growth.

In addition, a moratorium is usually put into place to allow a community to regroup. However, I never saw any signs that the board was regrouping or doing anything to recapture that lost revenue.

Can you enlighten me on what you, or the board, may have done to HELP growth. Please don't keep using the Taubman excuse as they are not here and have not gotten the $20 million you talk about as it is tax incentives that can't be realized until they start building and growing.

I am talking about policies and vision that would welcome business growth. Give us some examples?

Finally, a moratorium, without any additional work or action can also be viewed as a method of pandering to no growth special interests as they believe you have actually done something. It is not until you hit a hiccup (or complete bust) in the economy that you see the true effects.

The special interests, and the bulk of the voters, did vote for the Park & Rec Bond. You would be correct. What they don't want to do is pay for the additional maintenance and operations of those new parks and libraries. They have some delusional thought that since the bond paid for it that it is over. Well surprise folks...it's not! It will take more tax money to keep these things going.

So Mr. Richard, expert of all things, how about you do a few things to back up your claims. Although I suspect you will call me lazy and tell me to do it myself as it is your S.O.P. to weasel out of it with insults. But I will try anyway.

1. Prove your 95% rezoning claim.

2. Give us a breakout of REAL dollars invested in commercial growth. Please don't use smoke and mirror numbers from Taubman.

3. Tell us, o wise one, how you would balance this budget without a small tax increase. Go download the budget from the county website and give specifics. Don't say you don't have time. I am not going to bring up the reason but we know time is something of which you have an abundance.

Until you can back up your rants with facts I would suggest you just go away. Your excuses for poor performance and lack of leadership are falling on deaf ears. Not to mention your complete lack of respect and common courtesy. I suspect you will not perform as I am doubtful you can prove me wrong. The challenge is there and you can respond as you see fit.

I think we all know you will insult or give some silly answer about not proving your points and that my chellenge is only an attempt to get you to do something. I know how you operate and I want to see if you have it in you to actually work to prove your position versus insult and rhetoric.

Here is reality folks

It is time this community demanded leadership from the Board of Commissioners.

No more politics, no more rhetoric, no more pandering, no more lies, no more spins and no more games.

Too easy, Danny-boy.

$1.1 million to Great Wolf Lodge for road improvements to Mary Alice Park Rd.

Over $1 million dollars in Tree Ordinance fees to The Avenues Forsyth.

$.5 million in sewer giveaways to the Avenues Forsyth.

$.8 million in right of way costs the the Sembler project on Marketplace Blvd.

$12 million to build Ronald Reagan Parkway for Taubman, well in advance of that project being needed.

Strike one, Danny-boy.

Now, to the moratorium. We used that time to conduct the first-ever Infrastructure Survey of Forsyth County. That helped us to identify what roads, water and sewer needs had to be addressed for current and future boards. Some people like to act in ignorance; our board liked to act with information.

Strike two, Danny-boy.

Count the rezoning approvals yourself. I already know the number we denied (5), so do the rough math in your head based on number of total requests.

Strike three, Danny-boy. You're out!

I never said taxes shouldn't be raised, moron, but I'd like to see what cuts have been made first. Engineering, Roads and Bridges, and Communications would be the first departments I'd be looking at.

And your OPINION that a residential rezoning moratorium scared off commercial rezonings is just that - an OPINION. Back it up with facts. Of course, since commercial rezonings continued to come in to us and were approved FOLLOWING the residential rezoning moratorium, maybe your OPINION doesn't really carry much weight when faced with FACTS.

Too easy, Danny-boy.

$1.1 million to Great Wolf Lodge for road improvements to Mary Alice Park Rd.

Over $1 million dollars in Tree Ordinance fees to The Avenues Forsyth.

$.5 million in sewer giveaways to the Avenues Forsyth.

$.8 million in right of way costs the the Sembler project on Marketplace Blvd.

$12 million to build Ronald Reagan Parkway for Taubman, well in advance of that project being needed.

Strike one, Danny-boy.

Now, to the moratorium. We used that time to conduct the first-ever Infrastructure Survey of Forsyth County. That helped us to identify what roads, water and sewer needs had to be addressed for current and future boards. Some people like to act in ignorance; our board liked to act with information.

Strike two, Danny-boy.

Count the rezoning approvals yourself. I already know the number we denied (5), so do the rough math in your head based on number of total requests.

Strike three, Danny-boy. You're out!

I never said taxes shouldn't be raised, moron, but I'd like to see what cuts have been made first. Engineering, Roads and Bridges, and Communications would be the first departments I'd be looking at.

And your OPINION that a residential rezoning moratorium scared off commercial rezonings is just that - an OPINION. Back it up with facts. Of course, since commercial rezonings continued to come in to us and were approved FOLLOWING the residential rezoning moratorium, maybe your OPINION doesn't really carry much weight when faced with FACTS.

I guess the only thing to accept and prove is that the voters did not approve of the way you conducted our business. We sent you packing.

Harrell is most definitely next and perhaps Charlie too! You can be assured Boff will be gone when his term is up.

Keep making decisions based on special interests and not in our best interest and you might face a lawsuit or two for breaching your oath of office and not performing your fiduciary responsibility.

Bring it on, Maurice!

And by the way, dispute what I wrote above. Maybe you can make the case when Danny-boy can't. Note the silence when faced with real, live facts.

No "special interests" involved.

Chowder-head.

Some of these comments prove just why some people simply do not need to vote. If you cannot understand the logic behind a residential rezoning moratorium and how it differs from commercial rezoning then you don't need to vote. If you cannot go to the county website and look up the agenda and meeting minutes form the years 2005-2009 and fact check the numbers that David Richard put forth, then you don't need to vote. If all you have is personal attacks for a once elected official and no sound fundamental facts to back up your disagreement with him, again you don't need to vote. Sit out the elections because obviously you have no clue as to what is going on around you.

With that said, those of you who are beating your chest at the former commissioner about moratoriums and trying to plan for growth and complaining about the steps the previous commission took in trying to rein in out of control growth are the same ones who would be complaining had the commission simply did nothing and Forsyth County turned out to be another Gwinnett or Cobb County with congested and crumbling roads, sky high water rates, out of control spending, and power hungry officials controlling the election process.

One word can only sum up your positions: hypocritical.

From the county's website - "Budgets": "Salaries and Benefits" in 2003 ("in thousands"): $38,818 ( a "3% increase from prior year" - btw, a very "typical" increase is 2-4%). "Salaries and Benefits" in 2007 ("in thousands")" $72,135 (can you say "doubled" over a four year "term"?)

Inexcusable...someone fell asleep while the gas pump was on. And now? Tax increases?

But wait...before anyone says "fastest growing County...", did it DOUBLE in size? In revenue? And all of this by "limited government" Commissioners?

"Never mind what they say - watch what they do."

They say that "success goes staight to the head". And so it has...

Jim, your figures are misleading.

In 2005, the Board of Commissioners did a salary review of Forsyth County vs. neighboring/similar counties and found our pay structure lacking. We instituted a 3.3% per year leveling increase in salaries that year, and for the next three years. In addition to that, there was still COLA and merit increases. So, the workforce didn't double in size, but salaries were accelerated through that timeframe which would make it seem that way.

Depending on the salary, you might see as much as a 25% increase in existing workers salaries in that timeframe. Add in the extra workforce hired because of county growth, and you'd come very close to the doubling of salaries, especially when you consider fire and sheriff increases.

Blah, blah, blah David, they are not "my figures". And of course the "the workforce didn't double in size", only the "salaries" over that time frame. There is only one (logical/statistical) conclusion - "TOP HEAVY". Nope. More water techs were NOT hired. Nope. More road maintenance crews wer NOT hired. Nope. More electricians were NOT hired. Not in any numbers to explain the DOUBLING of salaries. Guess where the "extra" (found out back on the "money trees") went?

But you're right in mentioning "the posse". I have seen this over and over during the past 20 years - new beloved sheriff starts with "his department" at, sayyyy 10% of a County's budget and be the time he leaves (after getting re-elected 3,4,5 times) the sheriffs budget has become 25-30% of the entire County budget. Every one is scared shitless of the sheriff, after all, crime is down, right? And WHO would start out at $30k per year? Surely not a job as "dangerous" as law enforcement? Only a teacher with a bachelors degree could be asked to start that low, right? Does anyone know that highway workers are 3,4,5 times more likely to be injured or killed than a "LEO"?

Sorry, not buying your spin.

You should have let this one go. It is self explanatory. And so will the next election results.

The budget has been pure crap. Should I break out the local comparisons to surrounding "comps" (close in population and land mass)? Cherokee County? Hall County? Paulding County?

But I have the Forsyth County budgets right in front of me: 03=110 million; 04-142 million! (was this your first year in office?);05-146 million; 06-154 million; 07-177 million dollars!; 08-185 million. And now? Back down to 146 million.

Again, these are not MY numbers - over the past 5 years, the taxes levied...revenues collected have DOUBLED (see "groos digest" numbers). It feels like I'm in NEW JERSEY and NOT the Ninth Congressional District of Georgia (one of the highest GOP "bedrocks" in the nation, so my research told me before I moved here...and Kevin Harris assures me, is still so).

Again...inexcusable! And shame on me for not deliving into this as soon as I bought a home here. Had I done so, I would have passed out these numbers in flyers all over congested areas - the RINOS that have done this would have been RAN!

"Small government" my...eye!

Jim, your figures are again misleading. You need to calm down and rationally look at them, and not as some rabid dog looking for a victim.

The budget figures you are looking at are not for county Maintenance and Operation alone. The numbers you are looking at are for ALL expenditures including SPLOST.

SPLOST doesn't do salaries, Jim. Nor does it pay for day-to-day operations. It is a voter-approved income stream and must be spent on projects the voters agreed to. And if retail sales go up, so do retail tax revenues. So if you want to do "comps" make sure you are comapring apples to apples and not oranges.

The portion of the budget that commissioners are directly responsible for is the M & O budget, which is decidely smaller than you posted here. I'm doing this from memory, but 2008 was a proposed $105 million, which ended up being $95 million. 2009 was dropped to around $84 million thanks to my work before leaving office. Next year will be about $7 million less than that, if what I read is correct.

Now, to your "salary" numbers. That $30k deputy doesn't cost us $30K per year. There is a benefits load of about 30-35% tacked onto that number in "salary" costs.

And our sheriff's budget has always hovered around 25% - 33% of our budget. In fact, while I was on the board, we dropped it from a high of 33% to around 29%, while shifting some of that to fire, which remains understaffed in my view.

And we don't have electricians in county government, Jim. We DO have inspectors which were increased to meet the demands of growth, and then laid off when growth was no longer as prevailent. There are less people working in administration than there were 4 years ago (with the exception of communications).

You really need to do actual research on this one. We didn't do everything right, and not even close, but your rantings about this issue are basically nonsense.

Golly shucks, David - you are right. I cannot make sense out of all this spending and mismanagement, but apparently...you can. Kings to you, David...kings to you.

How much do I pay? Where do I send the check?

The latest? Even though it is not technically a "tax increase", it is a "mandatory expense" to every home and business with a septic tank system; both "initially" and thereafter via a monthly sewer bill. What I am referring to is the proposed County Sewer Ordinance.

Last night, at the "CC" meeting, an employee from the department spoke on the reason to modify the existing ordinance - "it only provided for penalities and not sur-charges". The County attorney spoke to the Commissioners as well, stating "under the code, the County has determined to be in the sewer business".

What does this mean? First of all, I implore everyone in the County who is currently using a septic tank (not "hooked up" to a County sewage line) to read the proposed ordinance. On page "2", there is a this statement: "This ordinance shall apply to all users of the sewage works". However, on page "16", under sections "3.5 & 3.6" we learn that it is "all encompassing" with the end goal to have every structure in the County (with "lavatories, sinks, toilets, washing machines, diswashers, shop basins", etc) tied into the system - at the OWNERS EXPENSE.

As one of the "public speakers in opposition" stated, God forbid that you live on a "downgrade lot", which would require the installation of a "lift station", which would be deeded over to the County as an integral part of the system, along with the right-of-way access (on top of the currently $5,000 "tap fee").

The attorney pointed out that all septic systems are currently under the jurisdiction of the Health Department as "temporary systems", knowing that eventually, all such systems would be tied into the County Sewer lines.

Even though I only had "74 seconds" to address the Commissioners, I did comment that no matter how well-intended, this ordinance places every such home/business under the authority of the (yet to be named/appointed) "Director", which is under the State, which is under the Federal Government under the "40 CFR" (code of federal regulations - subject to the "Clean Water Act").

Now...to that act, which is the (false) premise of this ordinance being "required". Believe it or not, I read that act, 40 CFR and all 48 pages of the proposed ordinance (this took about 3-4 hours). What I found is not nearly as important as what I DID NOT find - not one, single reference to "septic tank" other than "industrial users".

Never mind the fact that this "act" was born out of a lawsuit upon the US from Canada for the pollution US cities on the Great Lakes. Never mind the fact that it was modified to include municipal sewage systems because they failed to maintain them and as a result, contaminated many lakes, streams and "potable water" sources (wells, springs, etc). Never mind the fact that Counties and cities all across America saw the potential revenue stream for their coffers - while NOT calling it a "tax". What is pertinent, is the fact that any such violation of a "septic tank system" already has a legally binding permit to maintain it.

Try this - call the County Health Department and ask them "how many such violations occur on an annual basis?"

What you will discover, is a "non-issue" in regards to the supposed merit of this ordinance.

By all means, attend the next public hearing on this - August 6th. Hold these commissioners feet to the fire and make them understand (beyond the "small government" pledges they took as candidates) that a fee to government is money taken from our personal funds.

If "necessary", by all means. But, "if it ain't broke - don't FIX IT!"

Support the ordinance with an exemption to private septic systems. Demand that their usage be continually available under the jurisdiction of the County Health Department AND NOT, the federal government.

My email to Commissioner Bell ("my district commissioner"):

Good morning Commissioner Bell!

As you are aware, by your attendance last night, there are some potentially big problems with the proposed sewer ordinance, as it is now written.

As you also understand, every "crisis" creates opportunity - this is your opportunity to set yourself apart from the past direction of the County Commissioners. This will be, as they say, a defining moment in who you are and what you believe - will you go along with the ever-increasing growth of government, or will you stand with the families of this County in resistance to such taxation?

Last nights comments not only spoke to the errant-ness of this ordinance, but they also revealed another problem for homeowners - the (current) "temporary usage" language contained in the Health Department permits for septic tanks.

Here is the "fork in the road" - either you reject the ordinance as it is now proposed and offer a PERMANENT reprieve to the untold tens of thousands of users of "septic tanks" or you vote with the "expand the people's burden to their government" crowd; pick one. And, as I heard many years ago, "choose your team wisely".

What I am asking you to do, on behalf of all "potentially effected" homeowners in this County, beyond that previously stated, is to draft an amendment to the applicable code(s), giving "permanent usage" of all septic tanks, with the caveat/proviso that they be maintained to function properly. I realize that to do so, will put you at odds with the "revenue collectors" you sit amongst, but again - pick one. Trust me in this - this will be a "watershed moment" (and/or "woodshed") in our County. Do not worry if the amendment does not pass - we'll take care of that in genuine democratic fashion.

Bottom line? I do not begrudge the County, nor any entity, from "being in business", covering the operational cost. What I will not stand for (and I'm certain I can find sufficient like-minded citizens of this County to recall and unseat all who disagree) is the unnecessary expansion of government - which is ALWAYS, by default, an increased burden to the people.

"When governments expand, liberty shrinks" - Ronald Reagan (farewell speech)

And this "proposed ordinance" is just such an expansion.

Patrick, are you with us? As eternal, actions speak louder than words - show us.

Best regards, Jim Callihan

Mr. Richard Are you really the past commissioner of Forsyth County or are you just pretending to be him? I could not believe it when I saw the language in your posts. You should act like a gentleman and be respectful of the position you held. It was a position of servant hood and you should hold all citizens in that regard...whether they all deserve it or not.

Jim I read your comment regarding the sheriff's office. I suggest we have a secret survey of all deputies in the county and see how many think that there are too many of them. I happen to know one personally and he says there are way too many deputies with nothing to do. (getting them to admit this will be difficult) While the "nothing to do" is great, it doesn't mean we should hire twice the number of deputies to dilute their "nothing-to-do-ness." Maybe this is why the sheriff's budget is such a huge chunk of the budget??

Bryan, I am indeed th former county commissioner, and not pretending to be him.

And in case you haven't noticed, the term "former" applies here, and since I have no intentions of ever running for office again, I don't particularly care what someone else thinks about my language or my lack of respect for some of the cretins who post ignorantly on this site.

Richard coming unhinged again. I live it!

you all sound like eight year olds,oh wait a minute eight year olds can always come up with a solution without all the ugly talk, all the commissioners should be taken out of office.